Friday, November 18, 2011
Secrecy, injunctions and the rule of law
Court secrecy and injunctions act to undermine the rule of law.
What is interesting in the courts at the moment is the revelation that many of the injunctions that were granted should not, in fact, been granted. A number of these were granted on the basis of allegations that were untrue and have not been substantiated.
One of the problems with secret hearings (and we have still been having some unlisted hearings - something that is not supposed to happen) is that the judge cannot him or herself have confidence that the judge has heard all the evidence that is relevant to the case.
One sided hearings (ex parte hearings) which are held in secret are perhaps the most unreliable forum in which decisions are made. One side puts their case. No-one else (other than the judge and the one side to the case) knows that it is happening. The judge then makes a decision.
It was the case for many interim injunctions that a one sided secret hearing was all that happened and things then stopped.
The other problem I see is when court orders are used to prevent evidence being adduced in other fora.
Hence in a simplistic manner the following of a court order in one case acts to undermine the rule of law in other cases.
I have been quite surprised at the number of processes that have been used to undermine the rule of law. Court orders, secret unlisted and ex parte hearings, contracts, Public Interest Immunity certificates. All of these have been used in a way which has undermined the rule of law.
The rule of law does not mean a Kritarchy. The system has to function in a realistic manner with proper accountability. What that means for the UK is a lot less secrecy. posted by john ¶ 12:03 PM
What is interesting in the courts at the moment is the revelation that many of the injunctions that were granted should not, in fact, been granted. A number of these were granted on the basis of allegations that were untrue and have not been substantiated.
One of the problems with secret hearings (and we have still been having some unlisted hearings - something that is not supposed to happen) is that the judge cannot him or herself have confidence that the judge has heard all the evidence that is relevant to the case.
One sided hearings (ex parte hearings) which are held in secret are perhaps the most unreliable forum in which decisions are made. One side puts their case. No-one else (other than the judge and the one side to the case) knows that it is happening. The judge then makes a decision.
It was the case for many interim injunctions that a one sided secret hearing was all that happened and things then stopped.
The other problem I see is when court orders are used to prevent evidence being adduced in other fora.
Hence in a simplistic manner the following of a court order in one case acts to undermine the rule of law in other cases.
I have been quite surprised at the number of processes that have been used to undermine the rule of law. Court orders, secret unlisted and ex parte hearings, contracts, Public Interest Immunity certificates. All of these have been used in a way which has undermined the rule of law.
The rule of law does not mean a Kritarchy. The system has to function in a realistic manner with proper accountability. What that means for the UK is a lot less secrecy. posted by john ¶ 12:03 PM
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so how can you be a part of it then? if that is what you really think....? don't tell me, Joint Enterprise law doesn't apply to you either.....I bet you get paid as well don't you? you commit every crime imagineable with imunity....you even break your own laws (which isn't the same thing, anothr common mistake made by trully,truly stupd people-----thatis why there are two different words, if they meant the same there wuld only be one....)
Jean Charles, Harry Stanley got of pretty easy I tink....you do far worse than that to people! and looks like I'm starting to goblind now......different tactic to stop me posting rather than just killing or incarcerating/ torturing me? nothing you do even makes any kind of discernible sense!
Jean Charles, Harry Stanley got of pretty easy I tink....you do far worse than that to people! and looks like I'm starting to goblind now......different tactic to stop me posting rather than just killing or incarcerating/ torturing me? nothing you do even makes any kind of discernible sense!
Jake are you sane? Your ramblings indicate to me you are not.
I can't even see how your comment is relevant at all to the blog post.
I wasn't even going to respond until I read that drivel.
But whilst I am at it I would agree with John's posting entirely, the rule of law needs to be fair, balanced and based on evidence.
I can't even see how your comment is relevant at all to the blog post.
I wasn't even going to respond until I read that drivel.
But whilst I am at it I would agree with John's posting entirely, the rule of law needs to be fair, balanced and based on evidence.
So how can you change the system when we can't even tell our stories of malpractice,bullying and corrupt social workers who will try and lose you your child if they take a dislike to you.This is stated by lawyers also.that is is often down to if the social worker likes you as to whether the family stays together.Baby Peters social worker said her mother was lovely and "not to worry you wont lose Peter" Now they are working again thanks to the totally incompetent General social care council who do not deal with serious malpractice.
Social workers now think they are unaccountable gods because no-one can publish their stories.
Social workers now think they are unaccountable gods because no-one can publish their stories.
you never mentioned there was a bloody word limit! guess massive repeat myself and multi post attempt then!
Andrew.... i very nearly didn't bother to respond to you either, but you really ought to look at in context.....
you dnt really know until you been on the receiving end for years....(over ten now for me) no sane person can disagree when people like John state the 'blatantly obvious'....but i tried stating the blatantly obvious once and you oughta try reading what they did to me....
it's the hypocrisy of it that is the most galling thing...part of me very tempted to test the suposition....if i put on a disguise, creeped up bhind you and shot you rpeatedly in the head I do doubt that I will end up with a promotion to royal protction squad....what do u think? and is this not the same Big Dick that has been put in charge of this 'phone hacking scandle'? you not heard of the RIPA laws either? the govt bugged all enemy MPs (allegedly) including the likes of David Davis (?)....so how were the other power ssupposd to counter that....? think about it.....why so much reluctance to open an inquiry into that one....?
and then there was that cold calling 'votes' thing...Cons and Lab did it....soon as Lib dems did it in order to compete they stopped and the Lib dems were the only onesproscuted for it....? now u in bed with the ******?
do you ever think the Raoull Moat tapes will be released? you dnt go to all the touble of decking your whole place out with secret cameras without a good reason...
context is eveything. I say it's a bit 'wrong' to go aaround twatting people around the heads with basball bats, stabbing them, killing them....but if they just attacked you in the street/ broke into your hous and attacked you and your family whilst stark bollock naked in your own bed surely you have the right to defend yourself? threats dnt come much bigger than that.....surely no sane person wd disagree? justifiable homicide? what about when they murder you dog. other family members, my fellow country man? but no, you must think that anybody does that must automatically be a schizo, chemical labotomy and then puppet ssolicitor/ trial by kangaroo....(if you're lucky....)
why has the population in menatl institutions been growing by 40% per year for the last ten years or so? do you believe that the CIA is still going around putting LSD in people's breads? and u dnt consider that an act of war either, presumably?
you dnt really know until you been on the receiving end for years....(over ten now for me) no sane person can disagree when people like John state the 'blatantly obvious'....but i tried stating the blatantly obvious once and you oughta try reading what they did to me....
it's the hypocrisy of it that is the most galling thing...part of me very tempted to test the suposition....if i put on a disguise, creeped up bhind you and shot you rpeatedly in the head I do doubt that I will end up with a promotion to royal protction squad....what do u think? and is this not the same Big Dick that has been put in charge of this 'phone hacking scandle'? you not heard of the RIPA laws either? the govt bugged all enemy MPs (allegedly) including the likes of David Davis (?)....so how were the other power ssupposd to counter that....? think about it.....why so much reluctance to open an inquiry into that one....?
and then there was that cold calling 'votes' thing...Cons and Lab did it....soon as Lib dems did it in order to compete they stopped and the Lib dems were the only onesproscuted for it....? now u in bed with the ******?
do you ever think the Raoull Moat tapes will be released? you dnt go to all the touble of decking your whole place out with secret cameras without a good reason...
context is eveything. I say it's a bit 'wrong' to go aaround twatting people around the heads with basball bats, stabbing them, killing them....but if they just attacked you in the street/ broke into your hous and attacked you and your family whilst stark bollock naked in your own bed surely you have the right to defend yourself? threats dnt come much bigger than that.....surely no sane person wd disagree? justifiable homicide? what about when they murder you dog. other family members, my fellow country man? but no, you must think that anybody does that must automatically be a schizo, chemical labotomy and then puppet ssolicitor/ trial by kangaroo....(if you're lucky....)
why has the population in menatl institutions been growing by 40% per year for the last ten years or so? do you believe that the CIA is still going around putting LSD in people's breads? and u dnt consider that an act of war either, presumably?
but no, presumably you must subscribe to the state religion that any delusional yob that claims to be a non physicl entity after the fact can do no wrong....it's not SCIENCE that is the new religion.......
it's not an delsuion or even an opinion....the only wway to get aa name out of a suspected govt employee iss to kill one in self defence? so how u supposed to verify/ see some ID/ the warraant? abduct and torture them for a change? get real man...
the only reason i give my time here is that, strangely, John does let me post here ssometimes (understands the concept of freedom of speech, apparently...to a point nyway....maybe hope ffor him? at best he's doing what i think i wd be trying to if i hadn't been through what i had/ had that option/ didn't know better now....).....i wd have thought an MPS blog wd get more traffic somehow....and after cyer stalking the guy for a while i do see we have plenty in common...he may have a few years on me but earl life we were on the same path in a sense....
and have you notice that the only 'people' that wear body armour are the same one's that also carry weapons and are amongst the most violent and sadistic m***** *******?
until people ae held accountable for what people do regadless of hair colour, eye colou, whether they have a penis or not or who their employer allegeclyy iss, it's not 'rule by law', common or otherwise.....what do you call that?
do you think you are sane? what's the difference between belie and knowing? do u believe in God or the Tooth fairy? i believe the most violent bully always wins...its called evolution! if u dnt escen to their level u just become extinct...
surprisn what is allowed here and what isn't but that was probably a waste of my time! ;-) and yes i drink too much these days...i was virtually tee total before they totured me!
ra ra, ra ra, rarrrgggGHHHHH!!!
it's not an delsuion or even an opinion....the only wway to get aa name out of a suspected govt employee iss to kill one in self defence? so how u supposed to verify/ see some ID/ the warraant? abduct and torture them for a change? get real man...
the only reason i give my time here is that, strangely, John does let me post here ssometimes (understands the concept of freedom of speech, apparently...to a point nyway....maybe hope ffor him? at best he's doing what i think i wd be trying to if i hadn't been through what i had/ had that option/ didn't know better now....).....i wd have thought an MPS blog wd get more traffic somehow....and after cyer stalking the guy for a while i do see we have plenty in common...he may have a few years on me but earl life we were on the same path in a sense....
and have you notice that the only 'people' that wear body armour are the same one's that also carry weapons and are amongst the most violent and sadistic m***** *******?
until people ae held accountable for what people do regadless of hair colour, eye colou, whether they have a penis or not or who their employer allegeclyy iss, it's not 'rule by law', common or otherwise.....what do you call that?
do you think you are sane? what's the difference between belie and knowing? do u believe in God or the Tooth fairy? i believe the most violent bully always wins...its called evolution! if u dnt escen to their level u just become extinct...
surprisn what is allowed here and what isn't but that was probably a waste of my time! ;-) and yes i drink too much these days...i was virtually tee total before they totured me!
ra ra, ra ra, rarrrgggGHHHHH!!!
So why do you ignore the story of Operation Ore? You have admitted to me that miscarriages of justice have occurred, but are yet to speak out? If you are so much for 'justice for families' then why do you not speak out?
TC
TC
I suppose totally confused that he has only got so many hours in the day. He can't cover every issue known to families as there is so many awful things happened in this so called family justice system.
We need more MP's and people speaking out. Its cos its vulnerable people that ss attack and not their families on the line.
Hope you are well TC. (Ollie)
We need more MP's and people speaking out. Its cos its vulnerable people that ss attack and not their families on the line.
Hope you are well TC. (Ollie)
I agree with some of the things you say Jake and yes there are many real 'conspiracies'.
But don't you think you are rambling just a bit?
And why? what is your problem with John exactly is it because he is works in the gov?
But don't you think you are rambling just a bit?
And why? what is your problem with John exactly is it because he is works in the gov?
um, since when has John been a member of the govt anyway? must admit i dnt watch MSM that much these days, haven't one ffor years....it's all bull****, but i suspect you may be confusing being an MPwith being part of the govt/ cabinet.....admittedly it is common mistake mad by truly, truly stupid peopl all over the universe.....;-)
did you read the whole blog (of mine)? how far did you get....? many have tried, most fail....(to get to the end)
and what makes you think i have a problem with John personally? never even met the geezer.....fact he is the only g-man i ever heard of that i may ctually be persuadable to have a convo wih.....without having to torture me again first! at least i dnt have to kill that guy in self defence to get a nme out of him....
at best he's very choosy what he 'choose' top speak out about...at least under the thumb...at best he's only 'allowed' to say much and i suspect he's smart enough to say that....and it's the hypocrissy is the most galling thing, he's dependn on the terrorists for his own security...and you can't be one o them and not be one of them at the same time...that's also the law apparently and i'm not going through the nrembourg trials again with ya....
and on the subject o hypocrist it's beyond bizarre what he doe and doen't censor on here.....
one bit of good news though
http://rt.com/usa/news/seychelles-drone-us-iran-711/
bet things rally going to kick off end of this/ bginning of next year....
what bits dnt you agree with? and why so interested anyway? i'm still praing for a quick death here (as in expression, i dnt believe in any of that God twaddle) and expecting far worse/ continuation...
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did you read the whole blog (of mine)? how far did you get....? many have tried, most fail....(to get to the end)
and what makes you think i have a problem with John personally? never even met the geezer.....fact he is the only g-man i ever heard of that i may ctually be persuadable to have a convo wih.....without having to torture me again first! at least i dnt have to kill that guy in self defence to get a nme out of him....
at best he's very choosy what he 'choose' top speak out about...at least under the thumb...at best he's only 'allowed' to say much and i suspect he's smart enough to say that....and it's the hypocrissy is the most galling thing, he's dependn on the terrorists for his own security...and you can't be one o them and not be one of them at the same time...that's also the law apparently and i'm not going through the nrembourg trials again with ya....
and on the subject o hypocrist it's beyond bizarre what he doe and doen't censor on here.....
one bit of good news though
http://rt.com/usa/news/seychelles-drone-us-iran-711/
bet things rally going to kick off end of this/ bginning of next year....
what bits dnt you agree with? and why so interested anyway? i'm still praing for a quick death here (as in expression, i dnt believe in any of that God twaddle) and expecting far worse/ continuation...
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